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byte modal
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
34
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Posted - 2012.12.02 16:27:00 -
[1] - Quote
on the mobile, sorry for the typing.
try looking at it from another angle instead of preconceived notions based on other games. instead of starting at the first skill and trying to "branch" forward, predicting where you MIGHT want to go, pick some desired weapon, suit, or module and check its skill prerequisites and work backwards from there.
for example:
i like shooting things. im killing enough with militia weaponry, but i die too fast. maybe i should upgrade my suit? checking dropsuit options i decide to go with assault type- II. checking the prerequisites, i see what skills I must train to get it. there is my "tree." it serves as a quick map to get from where i am to EXACTLY where i need to be. dropsuit command level I: check. caldari assault dropsuit level II. oh. i need to purchase and train this one. check!
later, i decide i need to boost shields. checking my module options from the market, i see that i have extenders, rechargers, and regulators. once i measure what might benefit me the most with the least amount of skills, i go with that. perhaps a complex shield extender and complex recharger because i can see that they both require infantry shield upgrades level IV. this will kill two birds with one stone---training the same skill for TWO modules. when i try to buy this skill, i notice i do not have the required skills to move forward, so first i must train infantry shield operations to level III.
now i have my modules. but they may not fit due to CPU output on my suit. well, what skills can be learned to offset that? are there any MODULES available to compensate? and so on.
this research and experimentation is part of the game. it allows us to set goals OURSELVES, and to work to obtain those goals over time. a proper "tree" could never cover all the possible combinations of suits, mods, and skill requirements simply because we are allowed to choose our own path here. even just the concept of a tree is a restrictive, predetermined path. i believe that by having that model in THIS game it will only add more confusion to new players trying to come to terms with the actual mechanics of skill progression within Dust/EvE. that preconceived notion will only be reinforced once players see a "tree" and most likely default into autopilot logic only to get frustrated when that logic does not match game mechanics.
good suggestion though as i do understand the pain; however, try to adjust you perspective slightly as ive described and i really do believe things will fall into place for you. it will still require SOME practice, but soon it will be inuitive.
best of luck,
-me |
byte modal
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
34
|
Posted - 2012.12.02 19:09:00 -
[2] - Quote
I'm not sure it's really about "opening one's mind" as it is just to recognize it's a different game? This format is established in EvE, and it works. The skills and paths available in Dust are considerably watered down in comparison. While I do understand the desire to paint something unfamiliar into a pattern that is more familiar, I fear that that only leads to mediocrity and lack of potential options of style, and will ultimately restrict the evolution of game play in general. This style may not be the best. We will see what comes. Personally, I'm not too happy with the over-simplification compared to EvE, but I get why they are doing it. My opnion? Trees are restrictive and, if implemented, could potentially lead to more simplification. Maybe not, but I've played plenty of games with trees and variations of. EvE, and now to a lesser extent Dust, offer another option. I find that interesting. Too, I honestly cannot see a tree type option that could cover all possible paths without being even more confusing than what we have now. The certificate path is possible and exists, but that really only provides general qualifications for topics not really specific skill paths for a desired dropsuit or weapon.
My post was only to possitively suggest another approach to the issue---to help. Perhaps it will offer new insight. Perhaps not. It's just advice. Ironically enough, how are EvE players trying to convince everyone that a skill set made for a different game, on a different system, in a different genre is perfect, different from everyone trying to convince EvE players that a skill set (i.e., a skill tree) made for a different game, on a different system, in a different genre is better? Just sayin ;)
all the best, and I do hope you find reoslution in this however the games evolves.
meow. |
byte modal
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
34
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 03:46:00 -
[3] - Quote
Crm234 wrote:"This format is established in EvE, and it works." is not applying that Eve skill system is perfect?
I am not trying to say we need a strict class base limiting skill tree but something a little simpler then the scrolling effect that happens for something.
quick example that might not be 100 percent . If i want to be a expert medic and use the most advance nanite injector I shouldn't be scrolling through engineering for one skill, mechanics for another skill, electronics for one skill, and logi suit for one skill. Where one skill needs to be 5 another 3, another one 4, and another 2.
I would like to see Dust not focus on we have the biggest skill set for a selling point but instead make the battlefield very immerse and make me want to take that next district or planet as the main focus.
Nope. I said it works, not that it's perfect. I admit that I PREFER EvE's skillbook method, but that's still not saying it's perfect. Too, I don't assume you mean to restrict roles into specific one-off classes. We're good there ;) I'm only saying that the current structure is different. While it may take someone acustomed to other methods time to see the benefit versus tradeoff, I do believe that once that bridge has been crossed that a whole new world of perception is waiting. I take this opposition mostly because I'm concerned that players... well, people in general (gamers or otherwise) take many things for granted. I'm not asking someone to meditate to find one's enlightenment through "EvE" methods and skill preference, just to consider something that AT FIRST may not be exactly intuitive but could very well offer more options, insight, and possibilities than what one is familiar with.
Trying to guess where I might want to go (skill, gear, role) is too complicated to lay out in a generic tree---at least in this game with so many custom options. I would guess that is why trees do not exist. Who am I though, I never had a hand in this development discussion. I do like the idea someone mentioned just above about using a path reference to take on using whatever SPECIFIC gear I've already selected would be. If I wanted to wear Assault Type-II, then show me all skills needed for it, in order, that I am missing so that I know what steps to take. But, a generic version of that already exists under the item specs. You just have to click over to it.
You want to be an expert medic, but by what route? If you want to specialize in nanite injectors, that's relatively easy. However, you may also need armor mods to surive the trip out to your downed teammate. Or perhaps speed mods. What if you want to carry Drop-Uplinks and a weapon of some sort to maybe try to defend yourself while allowing clones to spawn nearby? If your ideal loadout can't be supported by your default PG and CPU limits, then you will need to train up for output boosts or modules to compensate. What infinite lists of trees, then, would help explain all of that? How would that not be as confusing? Either way, you would have to adjust. If it's honestly just a nanite injector that interests you, then goto the market and click it's specs screen to see the prerequisites. There's your tree. WiyrKomi Nanite Injector - Required Skills: Infantry Eletronics Level III; Nanocircuitrry Level V.
Again, it's about starting from your goal and tracing it back. That's all already provided for you. If you start from Militia gear and want to just fill a "role" then that would be a bit impractical in that there are just so many indirect paths one could take to fill that role depending on your priorities, loadouts, equipment desires, and personality.
Personally, I don't really see the skill complexity being a selling point. It will attract some, yes, but I think the grand design that will call in players is that my battlefield campaign (as an unnamed individual player) will affect my squad's performance, affecting my team, affecting OUR district captures, affecting OUR planetside conquests, affecting my corp's or sponsoring EvE corp/alliance system control (now in the EvE gaming side), affecting region supply lines, affecting territorial disputes in 0.0 space, affecting alliance dominance or recession within the EvE universe. That's big. Well, it's potentially big. Who knows. We're all cogs in the wheel here. That's immersion. Having and knowing my options of loadouts and fittings will only put me one step closer to accomplishing that. There will always be default Empire NPC sponsored battles to cater to everyone else. And no, I don't mean that as a slight ;)
Anyhoo, I think I've hijacked the thread a bit. Sorry to have derailed a bit from the original posting. =) Discussion leads to new ideas. I'm down with that. Thanks for the replies, and I hope I'm making some sense without sounding like a punk. That's NOT my intention!
Gnite up there,
- me. |
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